Talk:The Dance of Dragons, A True Telling
Name: Leaving out "the" The show is a higher authority than an admin's hypotheses. The name of the book is said; twice. So that's the name of the book.--ArticXiongmao As explained, the TV series has flubbed lines before between "War of Five Kings" and "War of the Five Kings". Moreover, other TV continuity materials - the Histories and Lore videos for Season 4 - repeatedly called the war "the Dance of the Dragons", and the title of the book quotes the name of the war. "Birthdays" don't exist in Westeros; they have "Namedays". Two or three times actors have said "birthday" - but these have been declared simple dialogue errors. This was simply a dialogue error. Why jump to the conclusion that the name was officially changed? And for the sake of argument...assuming that the scriptwriters.....well, if they did change it on purpose...why? I mean that they intentionally sat down and said "Dance of the Dragons doesn't roll off the tongue, let's shorten it to Dance of Dragons"....why the heck would they change that intentionally? Admittedly it is quite confusing, and I understand the argument you're making (and I'm not insulted by it or anything), though I disagree. I do agree with your point that it almost certainly wasn't just the actress misspeaking the line, given that she said it that way twice, and was probably from the script.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 01:20, September 17, 2015 (UTC) You said it yourself. It rolls off the tongue. It just sounds better. Maybe. Or maybe not. Whatever their reasoning, the point stands: the name of the book as given in the show is "The Dance of Dragons." Anything else is a theory on your part. D&D can change canon; you cannot. Right now (and not for the first time), you're purposefully changing the show's canon because it doesn't align with the books. —ArticXiongmao (talk) 01:57, September 17, 2015 (UTC) We can't blindly assume that script errors are intentional. And when a basic name doesn't match what's in the novels, it leads to suspicion that there was a script error. The TV continuity has previously referred to the war as "the Dance of the Dragons"; the book title quotes the name of the war. Probably just a script error.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 02:16, September 17, 2015 (UTC) I can use the royal "we" too. We disagree. We think you're putting your own hypothesis (however sound) above the explicit canon of the show. We would like you to change it back. Then again, we don't expect you to or care that much. —ArticXiongmao (talk) 02:27, September 17, 2015 (UTC) The title of the episode, which is named after the book, is The Dance of Dragons. Did the writers fuck that up too? Of course not. It was deliberate. The show is a higher autbority on the show's canon than the books or suplementary material; especially if there is no chance an actor misspoke or that the writers got it wrong. Since it's the title of the episode, I hope you are reasonable enough to accept that there is no chance they missed it. It's a deliberate change. That's what the wiki should reflect. Keeping this article blocked is an abuse of your powers; it's not avoiding trolling, or even edit wars, but genuine discussion. --ArticXiongmao (talk) 09:31, September 24, 2015 (UTC) It is ridiculous to claim that a minor difference like leaving out "the" constitutes an intentional change in TV canon. No, this name will never be changed. I'm keeping the page locked. This is an official warning: if in the core text of articles I see you refer to it as "Munkun's Dance of Dragons" I'm going to give you a temporary warning ban. "The Dance of the Dragons, A True Telling" is the official name in the TV continuity. When in the original version of this article I explained the point about the name in a footnote, the proper course of action would have been to challenge it on this Talk page: NOT to revert the name in all links and articles, and RENAME the page back to "Dance of Dragons" over an Administrator's redirect! And yes by consensus an Admin decision like that can be overturned..."by consensus", i.e. established through Talk page discussion. You as one editor shouldn't revert major changes like that. I can't believe you are even arguing against this. Though I am interested in what the other admins have to say.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 14:25, September 24, 2015 (UTC) The show is rather inconsistent sometimes. Examples: *King of the Andals and the First Men... and we have an episode in which "Rhoynar" is added. *We have the example of the "War of Five Kings"/"War of the Five Kings" *Lord Stokeworth one season, next season is Lady Stokeworth *The show mentions Oberyn's father as Prince of Dorne, the Histories & Lore mention the mother, like in the books. So PLEASE could we drop this discussions over stuff like this when not even the show is consistent or at least clear with its own canon?--Gonzalo84 (talk) 20:53, September 25, 2015 (UTC) ArticXiongMao: I'm collapsing in exhaustion and frustration at the TV writers over this - not your fault. I'm so tired of their nonsense. Look, forget what I said about temp ban warning if you call it "Dance of Dragons" in other articles: yeah, use them interchangeably throughout the wiki (unless they later call it "Dance of The Dragons" by the full name). For the sake of consistency the article will remain titled "The Dance of the Dragons", but I'll put back in the part of the lead quote where Shireen gives the title of the book in the TV episode. How's that? Placeholder at least until if/when we ever track down the scripwriters about that (ha!). Also I'm unlocking the page. Yeah yeah it's pretty silly. P.S. - I have reason to believe the "of the Rhoynar" thing was a dialogue error in late Season 4 but see the king page on that I will be editing soon..., - they called it "War of Five Kings" once, otherwise they've consistently used "War of the Five Kings" (which is "default, with acceptable variant" I guess...), - Season 5 dialogue by Lollys clearly stating her bother is head of House Stokeworth is an official retcon, clean and simple, - ...Oberyn never outright stated his father was the previous head of House Martell, he just sort of implied it... But yeah this isn't worth arguing over.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 23:52, September 25, 2015 (UTC) : I disagree, and it's annoying that such a huge deal has been made of this. At the end of the day this wiki is supposed to be an encyclopedia about the show. Yes, it's an adaptation, so naturally we compare the two, and point out changes that are made - as we should. But this isn't a case of the show being inconsistent: the name of the book is mentioned once, and Shireen clearly says "The Dance of Dragons". The name of the episode she says it in is... "The Dance of Dragons". That's the name of the book in the show, regardless of whether or not is was intentional. A heated debate over this isn't warranted.--Ser Patrek (talk) 10:55, September 26, 2015 (UTC) : No, it isn't warranted... because it's pretty obvious to know what to do; follow the canon of the show, as established both by dialogue and the title of the episode. As you said, there has been no inconsistency in the show; it's a difference from the books, which is a different thing from an inconsistency. —ArticXiongmao (talk) 11:46, September 26, 2015 (UTC) Well if (also Admin) Patrek says so I'll move it then.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 19:25, September 26, 2015 (UTC)